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MrAnderson

Shaving Down

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do you have to be shaved down? i have read from various posters from numerous clinics that it does enable a better result and helps the dr avoid shockloss and better placement etc but would dr feller not shave down under special circumstances :unsure: . is there anyone he has performed on who hasn't had to be shaved and if so why did he not shave down?

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do you have to be shaved down? i have read from various posters from numerous clinics that it does enable a better result and helps the dr avoid shockloss and better placement etc but would dr feller not shave down under special circumstances :unsure: . is there anyone he has performed on who hasn't had to be shaved and if so why did he not shave down?

As far as I know mate, having the area shaved down allows for better placement. I never had the area shaved down in the UK on my previous three operations, and as such I wouldn't be surprised if they actually damaged some of the follicles when they made their incisions. I understand why you’re concerned, but from what I understand, it’s the only way... well if you want a good result that is.

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do you have to be shaved down? i have read from various posters from numerous clinics that it does enable a better result and helps the dr avoid shockloss and better placement etc but would dr feller not shave down under special circumstances :unsure: . is there anyone he has performed on who hasn't had to be shaved and if so why did he not shave down?

 

I second that MrAnderson,

 

I went through the same thing because I work in a professional role. The only time you can get away with it is if you are having a limited number of grafts placed in a smallish with with a low to moderate density. Anything else you will definantley have to. I talked to 3 doctors/consultants, Spex, Armani and Rahal and all said the same thing. Dr Rahal, who operated on me, said that it is very difficult or near enough impossible to do a good job on an area where there is hair. However, i was able to keep the hair in the middle be because Dr Rahal only needed to transplant a smaller number of grafts in a smallis area.

 

You'll need to speak with Spex and share photos etc.

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In my opinion shaving down is essential as it aids your HT in many ways. The Doc's do it for very good reason - not to inconvenience you but to provide you with the best possible outcome at the end of the day!

 

Dr F sometimes does not shave down but you have to be of a particular situation and if the Doc feels that he can still perform the best procedure possible for that patient without jeopardising the outcome then he will do his best to avoid shaving down BUT this is rare - and at the end of the day for a relatively short term inconvenience the long term gain of having an unhindered procedure its worth the buzz :)

 

Some clinics offer surgery without buzzing down - These clinics in my opinion do not achieve the same high standard results that the top clinics achieve by shaving down. They will tell you they can do, but ask yourself WHY do ALL the TOP clinics shave down - - for GOOD reason ;) If a clinic informs you that they can achieve the same results by not shaving down ask to see 30+ pictures of results for you to be the judge.

 

 

Be wary of clinics that say they can do it without shaving down also as some will tell you this and then once in the chair - buzz you :huh: Heard of it happening many times. Clinics have used this tactic to tip the balance in their favour to get you in the chair <_<

 

 

I do get asked this a lot! Here is some info on the importance of shaiving down:

--------------------

There are multiple technical factors that come into play during the creation of recipient sites and the subsequent graft placement. These include:

 

1.) When thinning areas are shaved down the “thinning process” takes on a different meaning. With the use of magnification it will be seen that some follicular bundles are absent (and there are wider spaces between remaining bundles) and that some bundles are significantly miniaturized. It will then be possible to place new recipient sites in the place of absent bundles and alongside miniaturized bundles to recreate the density. This can also be done in a uniform manner so that if the pre-existing hair eventually disappears, due to progression of hairloss, the transplant can still look reasonably natural. If the recipient site is not shaved the surgeon must part through the hair again and again looking for any empty spaces and trying to fill the spaces as best as possible. This is not really as exact a process but much more hit or miss.

 

2.) The hair exits the scalp at an exact angle. The only way to precisely match that angle is to buzz the recipient hair down (in a way similar to how ALL doctors need to shave the donor hair when taking out the donor strip).

 

3.) Transection of existing hair below the skin surface is possible if the incisions are not made exactly parallel to the surrounding bundles. We often see this as a “halo” type effect when performing repair procedures.

 

4.) When inserting grafts the technicians can easily identify the recipient sites and ensure that all sites are filled. This can be achieved with no trauma to the pre-existing hair.

 

5.) When hair is buzzed no manipulation of the pre-existing hair is required at all. When the hair is not shaved it needs to be combed through (hundreds of times) by the physician who makes the recipients sites and again by the technician who places the grafts into the sites. This repetitive trauma of combing through the hair again and again will result in “hair shock”, a shedding of the existing hair. When this hair falls out in 2 to 3 weeks there will be a 2 to 3 month wait before it returns. Whereas if the hair were buzzed it would grow from day one 1 and keep growing. A number 3 buzz cut often will look good at 10 to 14 days post operatively and blend in with the recipient site well.

 

All these factors are relatively unimportant if you are trying to place to 2 or 3 hundred grafts into recipient sites however if you wish to have the utmost of refined results the difference is night and day.

 

-----------------

Regards

Spex

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I will try find some but in my honest opinion with your situation the Doc will recommend shaving down mate, sorry!

 

 

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When I was having my 2nd HT, Dr Feller also confirmed that even the slightest amount of hair (Peach fuzz) can make placement of the hair by the techs extremely difficult.

 

I know a lot of people ask the question about shaving down due to the aesthetic look after the procedure but IMO I would always take the long term view of the success of the HT when deciding if this is a factor or not.

Also I believe a number of us have managed to disguise our recent HTs by keeping the hair long and taking 3 weeks off work. I know no-one in my office knows that I have had any operations done. :)

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Its been stated many times the importance of shaving down by all the top clinics. This must be for very good reason. Think about it ;) Theres no way a doctor or his techs can achieve as good a result without shaving down quite obviously otherwise why would the top clinics all make it complusory ;)

 

Listen to the reasons why regardless of how much you don't want to shave down. No one wants to shave down but you have to to get the top result.

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Here is a patient Dr Feller performed on recently without shaving down although this patients requirements were quite particular.

 

 

 

IPB Image

 

IPB Image

 

Hope these help but remember that as a general rule Dr Feller does require his patients to buzz.

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thanks spex, looks like a nice tidy job. he appears to have just had the one side rebuilt and the back addressed where there was no hair. i need the entire front addressing so i think will have to bite the bullet and shave down after further reading.

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Why did Feller only do one side and not pack out the entire thinning front? Is he intending to comb it over from right to left, as this appears to be the plan? What happens when the front goes or is that transplanted already?

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This patient in the pictures is a UK guy and has only recently had a HT with Dr Feller - He is hopefully joining the forum soon to share his experiences so i will leave it to him to explain his POA with Dr Feller as i don't know that exact details - in order to get the info accurate i will leave it open for the patient himself to explain. :)

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What happened to him before he went to Dr Feller :unsure: ? And why has he got stubble on his crown? Did he have his crown buzzed or is that transplant stubble? Did Dr Feller only do his hairline - he looks like he could have done with the front third/half filling in?

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What happened to him before he went to Dr Feller :unsure: ? And why has he got stubble on his crown? Did he have his crown buzzed or is that transplant stubble? Did Dr Feller only do his hairline - he looks like he could have done with the front third/half filling in?

 

This patient had a number of previous surgeries and as a result only had a limited donor area for Dr Feller to work with. Due to the previous surgeries, Dr Feller could only harvest 1800 grafts from his depleted donor area and these precious grafts had to be utilised to max effect - so the hairline was rebuilt on the right hand side and the mid/ crown was addressed. I don't think the mid/crown was buzzed as there was not a great deal there. Hopefully the patient can post to clarify.

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Hi guys, well, here are some answers to some of your 'shaving down' questions + other pointers...

 

I have had a few proceedures over recent years, since 2001 I have had 4, this was my 5th. 1st Dr Rogers at the then fairly (but not very) respectable Wellesbourne - I now recommend you AVOID the butchers of Wellesbourne. This went OK, then a year later, I returned for my 2nd to fill a receeding frontal area, but Dr Roger's was 'off sick' & I got a butcher, whose name I choose to forget....scar too low 'below the bump' as my recent cosmetrist (real word?) commented.

 

Since then, I re-found Dr Rogers in Stratford - he is very good, and a great team, I am confident to say one of, if not THE best in the UK (also backed up by Dr Fellars positive comments.)

 

2 more by Rogers, doing top & 'peppering the crown'.

 

Obviously we only have a limitied :( number of grafts, so I need to be careful. My front looked a little false, and was (confirmed by Dr Fellar) not straight, so needed filling slightly on the right. My priorities were 1) crown - I feel like I have a hole in the back of my trousers while it is so thin! 2) softening front. 3) scar tissue repair from previous proceedures.

 

On arrival at Dr Fellars, (early in the am...I stayed at The Andrew, well recommended, as are the breakfasts around the corner, ask Lionel the concierge), we debated my needs, his concerns and limitations. We agreed on filling as much in the crown as we could, and then tidying the front.

 

The team are great, all very relaxed, and good humoured. Though the offces and op room are not as slick as Dr Rogers, they are very professional, and the relaxed approach suits the man. The op went well, the DVD choice was good (Forest Gump for me) - I recommend you perhaps take your own, or maybe listen to your iPod...you may need to check 1st.

 

We aimed for 2000 grafts, but sadly as Dr F opted to also try & fix one of my scars, we were 200 short...these were the ones I wanted to soften the join between my implants & original side hair by my temples...I tried to persuade him to use some from the crown ones we had not yet used to do this important area, but was over-ruled - he knows best, and it is him who has to do the job!

 

Post op was fine, a night in with a (mild) Thai meal from the Ginger Tree at the shopping mall opposite (they deliver free which is handy if you dont want to go out, which you won't). By the day after I was out, & shopping in a hat.

 

Shaving Down ...this was a MUST to avoid for me, & I made it clear from the start. I cannot hide it as I am self employed, & no luxury of 4 weeks off...so, reluctantly, Dr F compromised, and I agreed he could shave the crown (which is now growing after 4 weeks) & not the front. Though the job may be compromised, I agreed to go ahead. I have seen others shaved down, and they are impressive, but I ave not got to this stage, and invested almost £10K over recent years to 'give in' & shave - If I was able to come to terms with that, then I might as well have never had any proceedures done & just buzzed for life - worth considering if you still have the option! :unsure:

 

4 Weeks in ...as mentioned, original crown growing back, implanrts shedded :( and all scars healing well...I use Aloe Vera gel. Also took MSN prior, as recommended by Spex (great bloke & font of all knowledge). Sadly, I will need another proceedure to soften the temples, & finish the lower crown & scars. I need to be carful to keep some 'spare' incase the sides drop further, a 'follicle island' on top is not what I want AT ALL!

 

TIPS ...stop taking all medication at least a week before op...travel a day or so before, so you can find your barings in Great Neck...don't foget to go into the main town, lots of shops & restaurants, as well as the Mall in the other direction opposite the hotel ...find out about the train times to NYC...very regular & only around $10 return...taxi from JFK, fix the price, I had read on the forum it is $45 to hotel so I argued, but he showed me in his official book it was $75 ($45 fixed to centre of NY). Take a map of where the hotel is...NY cabbies only just know where Manhattan is! Get food in from one of the supermarkets the day before so you have plenty in when you get back from op...If staying in The Andrew ask for DVD's day before (though my player was nt working)...also take your lap top, they have FREE wifi in all the rooms, so you can keep in touch with life, surf & e.mail! Need new medication..ask Dr F for a prescription, pills MUCH cheaper over there...EXTRA Tip...need a proper haircut? sympathetic to your needs, either pre, or post op, or if you have a piece, or bad implants...I recommend Shaun (great name) in Marleybone, London. www.shaunsofmarleybone.com or 0207487 5729...say i sent you! (he has private roooms downstairs & great mags!) He can really cover those scars, and 'balance' those locks, I have been going for 3 years, & travel 400 miles round trip to see him every month or so...!

 

In General ...Dr Rogers is good, possibly best in UK, Dr Fellar appears better (though time will tell when these little guys start to grow), worth the trip especially with £/$ rates. Good luck & happy planting!

 

PS..sorry about all the smelling mistakes, there is no smell check on this!

 

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post-2281-1177189109_thumb.jpg

 

hi there,thanks for the info. how many grafts did you have in total from you 4 previous surgeries, and how many in total were from the 3 surgeries with rogers? it appears very thin from 4 surgeries :blink:

 

hopefully fellers recent work will enable to a fuller more natural look.

 

all the best with it.

 

Since then, I re-found Dr Rogers in Stratford - he is very good

 

My front looked a little false, and was (confirmed by Dr Fellar) not straight, so needed filling slightly on the right

 

with all due respect from 3 surgeries to have a thin result in need of repair do you feel he is very good?/? :huh:

 

i am sorry if i have offended you in anyway but i would not be happy with that especially after 3 sessions with rogers. were these all strip or fue?

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Welcome to the forum. Your case is somewhat interesting to say the least. 4 surgeries and what appears to be not a great result from them.

 

You mention that you were limited to grafts but harvested 1800 grafts. Had a lot of grafts been wasted from previous surgery as there only appears to be max 2000 grafts on the top of your head in total, were you completely bald pre any surgery? Ignoring your H******* ***** surgery, how many grafts did roger transplant from the surgeries with him??

Were your 3 sessions with Rogers all strip or were some FUE as this might cast some light on your results.

 

Also how many scars were there from your previous surgeries and how much of the scaring did Feller remove?

 

You appear to have very limited growth from 3 surgeries, but refer to Rogers as the best in the UK :huh:

 

Though the offces and op room are not as slick as Dr Rogers, they are very professional, and the relaxed approach suits the man.

 

I find this comment interesting <_< Have you thought that its not about the slickness of the offices but actual results and the skill of the surgeon ;) Rogers slick offices don't seem to have got you slick results even after 3 attempts. I think any newbie reading this need be aware slick offices count for nothing. I heard Bosley and MHR have some amazing offices...... :rolleyes:

 

May I ask why after your sessions with Rogers and his "slick" offices that you didn't go back to him for a 4 th session??

 

 

 

In General ...Dr Rogers is good, possibly best in UK, Dr Fellar appears better

No offense but i think your results CLEARLY hightlight the FACT Feller is in a different leauge. Your results are one of the very few Rogers results around on the forums and if you persoanlly feel happy with the work thats was performed i think its safe to say this is a good reflextion of the work Rogers is performing.

 

Question is if Feller had perfomed 3 sessions on you instead of Rogers do you think the result would have been different.........

 

All the best with your recent HT! A shame Feller didn't have more grafts to use <_<

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PS..sorry about all the smelling mistakes, there is no smell check on this!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Thanks for the post hair2day, was very informative... you seemed to have better luck than me with keeping your food down immediately post op!

 

Thanks also for posting your comments on Dr Rogers - your opinion is valued. I'm sure there are people who visit this site and don't want to travel abroad (after all, it is a personal choice), I'm sure they will respect what you have said. At the end of the day, I have heard countless horror stories about lots of transplant clinics, but I've yet to hear a bad word about Dr Rogers. In fact, just recently, people seem to be coming forward and saying the opposite.

 

Looks like Dr Feller has done some good work on you, hope to see the results when you reach that 18 month mark.

 

Just want to wish you all the best for your future growth. Thanks for sharing you experience with us.

 

 

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Thanks also for posting your comments on Dr Rogers - your opinion is valued. I'm sure there are people who visit this site and don't want to travel abroad (after all, it is a personal choice), I'm sure they will respect what you have said. At the end of the day, I have heard countless horror stories about lots of transplant clinics, but I've yet to hear a bad word about Dr Rogers. In fact, just recently, people seem to be coming forward and saying the opposite.

 

:blink:

 

This is a horror story imo :huh: I think it's appalling that after 4 UK surgeries and £10K there isn't anything to show other than multiple scarring :o

 

If Hair2Day had been to the likes of Feller first time, he would have a full head of hair by now and minimal scarring. I'd advise anybody that doesn't want to travel not to bother with a HT at all. The previous work is borderline butchery.

 

With a HT, the doctor has to be more than just a nice guy - he has to be a top class surgeon too.

 

I just hope the 1800 Feller got is enough to camouflage the previous butcherings poor work.

 

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shaft i understand you wanting to support patients Dr's but i have to agree with PB on this that this result is very unsatisfactory from Rogers. How this can be see as a positive experience from Rogers i don't know :huh: am i missing something? :huh:

 

3 sessions!

 

IPB Image

 

Hair2day, welcome aboard. You sharing your experiences will undoubtedly help many people. All the very best with your recent session. I too went to wellsbourne/HG so know where you are coming from :angry:

 

Did Feller mention how many more grafts he could harvest in another session as i think you will need to beef up the front even more. Do you have another session in you now?

 

 

 

...this was a MUST to avoid for me, & I made it clear from the start. I cannot hide it as I am self employed, & no luxury of 4 weeks off...so, reluctantly, Dr F compromised, and I agreed he could shave the crown (which is now growing after 4 weeks) & not the front. Though the job may be compromised, I agreed to go ahead. I have seen others shaved down, and they are impressive, but I ave not got to this stage, and invested almost £10K over recent years to 'give in' & shave - If I was able to come to terms with that, then I might as well have never had any proceedures done & just buzzed for life - worth considering if you still have the option!

 

Personally i shaved down as I wanted Feller to have all the flexibility he needed to perform the best job possible. Shaving down is essential to achieve the best possible result from a HT and provides the Dr the most flexibility. Its not about "giving in". Shaving down is only short term, it grows back!!

 

If I was able to come to terms with that, then I might as well have never had any proceedures done & just buzzed for life

 

That doesn't make sense mate :unsure: ..... shaving down is short term for the procedure and allows a better job longer term, better results ;)

Feller and you obviously dictated the surgery around this issue though and i am sure the front where maybe you needed to be shaved down will be made better anyway regarless.

 

How many grafts were placed in your front right hand side by Feller?

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shaft i understand you wanting to support patients regardless of Dr but i have to agree with PB on this that this result is very unsatisfactory. How this can be see as a positive experience from Rogers i don't know :huh: am i missing something? :huh:

Hi Youngbald, I hear where you and PB are coming from, and I'm not saying that I think his previous work is anywhere near good, but then it's not up to me to make that judgement. At the end of the day Hair2Day has come on here and said that he respected Dr Rogers - for me that's enough. None of us (to my knowledge) have seen what his hairline looked like before he was first operated on, maybe it was much worse. Maybe he continued to lose more from MPB. Maybe his previous operations were carried out years ago before microsurgery – remember this type of surgery is evolving all the time and so are the doctors (well some of them). The point I was trying to make is if Hair2Day is happy with his previous work then I think he's allowed to express that.

 

As you probably know, I have had three prior operations to my Dr Feller one. I'm sure lots or people would say that my previous ops was sloppy work (I would tend to agree to a certain degree), but at the same time, many of my friends couldn't believe I was going for a forth operation as they thought my hair looked really good as it was. My previous surgeries also allowed me to change my hairstyle and feel better about myself - I know some people on here have been through hell and back, and I would never comment against their opinion, as it's clearly justified, so I don't understand why we can't accept Hair2Balds opinion. If he is happy with Dr Rogers (and I can't imagine that he would have any reason to lie) then I don't see a problem with him expressing it.

 

Mr Anderson and Helpme were perfectly polite with there questions, and they have as much as a right as anybody to post them and their opinions, I just thought I would also post mine. And my opinion is, without knowing Hair2Balds situation prior to his very first surgery, and if he is happy with his previous work by Dr Rogers, then he should be allowed to state this fact.

 

I honestly think that some people on here worry that others will read this site and rush off to see a poor surgeon. If that is the reason why Dr Rogers takes such a beating then at least the reasoning is commendable. What I think is forgotten is that people who actually find this site are already open to research and are also equally capable of making up there own mind. Remember, I haven't said anything against Dr Rogers but I still had my surgery with Dr Feller - and I advertise this fact in my signature.

 

The reason I won't attack Dr Rogers is because I have no right to, I have never had surgery with him or even met the guy. If someone posts on here that they are unhappy with Dr Rogers work then I would be just as happily let them have their opinion.

 

I don't think we'll ever see eye to eye on this mate - but that's cool, it's what a forum is for.

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If Hair2Day had been to the likes of Feller first time, he would have a full head of hair by now and minimal scarring

 

Totally agree with you here PB! Not just feller but any of the top docs would have given this guy better results after so many surgeries. No consolation to Hairtoday but a fair point all the same.

 

All the best Hairtoday hope it works out for you!

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Welcome aboard Hair2Day! Grow well mate - Be aware that growth into the crown does take longer so be very patient ;) All the very best with it all!!!

 

 

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shaft i understand you wanting to support patients Dr's but i have to agree with PB on this that this result is very unsatisfactory from Rogers. How this can be see as a positive experience from Rogers i don't know :huh: am i missing something? :huh:

 

3 sessions!

 

IPB Image

 

Hair2day, welcome aboard. You sharing your experiences will undoubtedly help many people. All the very best with your recent session. I too went to wellsbourne/HG so know where you are coming from :angry:

 

Did Feller mention how many more grafts he could harvest in another session as i think you will need to beef up the front even more. Do you have another session in you now?

 

 

 

...this was a MUST to avoid for me, & I made it clear from the start. I cannot hide it as I am self employed, & no luxury of 4 weeks off...so, reluctantly, Dr F compromised, and I agreed he could shave the crown (which is now growing after 4 weeks) & not the front. Though the job may be compromised, I agreed to go ahead. I have seen others shaved down, and they are impressive, but I ave not got to this stage, and invested almost £10K over recent years to 'give in' & shave - If I was able to come to terms with that, then I might as well have never had any proceedures done & just buzzed for life - worth considering if you still have the option!

 

Personally i shaved down as I wanted Feller to have all the flexibility he needed to perform the best job possible. Shaving down is essential to achieve the best possible result from a HT and provides the Dr the most flexibility. Its not about "giving in". Shaving down is only short term, it grows back!!

 

If I was able to come to terms with that, then I might as well have never had any proceedures done & just buzzed for life

 

That doesn't make sense mate :unsure: ..... shaving down is short term for the procedure and allows a better job longer term, better results ;)

Feller and you obviously dictated the surgery around this issue though and i am sure the front where maybe you needed to be shaved down will be made better anyway regarless.

 

How many grafts were placed in your front right hand side by Feller?

 

Guys Guys...I posted this over the weekend, and already quite a response...If I can help answer a few of your questions...The surgery began 5 years ago, I did quite a bit of research, but desperation breeds snap decisions. Don't foget, back then, no internet, & only poor adverts in the back of the Daily Mirror! They ahve all been strip.

 

I accept that if I was beginning now, I can visit forums like this & make more 'educated & informed' decisions, & hopefully my post will add to the cause of others. All I know is, without firstly Rogers & more recently Feller, then I would be bald...perhaps 10K richer, but who knows. My donar area is actually quite thin, from day one, so each time I have visited for larger sessions, we have ended up with smaller results, as proven by my 1800 instead of 2000, when Dr F thought he had actually harvested over 2K!

 

This time the front took around 500 & the rest in the crown. I also used around 500 at a previous Rogers session to 'Fix' part of the Wellesbourne scar. To defend Dr R, he has been good & considerate, and this has been supported by Dr F as hime being 'the best in the UK' though that may not say much, I do have extreme baldness & had a bad session at Wellesbourne, whihc needed fixing & no doubt wasted alont ****s! We can't all travel to the US & spend around £5K at once, so to those that can't, give Rogers a go, if you can (stick it on a 0% credit card) then go to Feller!

 

Footnote...NO_ONE knew I had had it done & when i told my girlfrined of 2 years, she was amazed - the pics you see may look thin pre-surgery, but it is pretty good on a normal day, if thin on the crown - which may now be partially addressed, when it re-grows.

 

2nd Feller Session - yes, i am expecting to return within the year to finish the front & the lower crown...& perhaps, IF I can spare a few, finally fix the lower rear scar!

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