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Nanogaine


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#1 crazydiamond

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Posted 02 January 2005 - 10:03 PM

I'm interested to know if you have any information on this product. It seems to come out from no-where and yet is making very bold claims with no evidence to back it up, and a wacking price tag to boot. i tried emailing the company but the didnt reply, which is not a great start. just wondered if you have any inside info?

#2 stophair

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Posted 03 January 2005 - 01:39 PM

Hi and Welcome Crazydiamond

Have contacted the company and invited them to post reply here.

It is a bank holiday on Monday and Tuesday so may have to wait for a reply.


Bill

#3 crazydiamond

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Posted 04 January 2005 - 10:47 AM

Thanks Bill

Think at lest they should have more info on their website on clinical trials that have been done. For people to shell out that amount of money, a little proof would help.

On another note, what do you think about Adenogen, the new topical coming from Shisheido?

#4 stophair

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 11:59 AM

Crazydiamond

Here is the reply that I got from Nanogen


Hi Bill,

I will reply to you - you can then reply to the enquirer directly. Nanogaine uses clinically proven ingredients to promote hair regrowth. Details are found at www.nanogen.co.uk

All clinical details will follow shortly, but please rest assured the claims made on the Nanogen website are accurate.

Bill, if possible please try to read & digest the following - if you read through it methodically it is not as complex as it first seems....

The nitric oxide chemical pathway exists within every hair cell. Increased prescence of intracellular nitrix oxide has been shown to increase the size & section of the hair follicle.

Conversely, peroxynitrite has been shown to be detrimental to the health of the hair follicle.

Superoxide Dismutase therefore has a double hair growth stimulation effect - more nitric oxide & less peroxynitrite.

Capilecti has been shown to expand the Anagen (growth) phase and shorten the telogen (resting) phase by 17%. Capilecti is a lectin-like glycoprotien helping to agglutinate hair follicle cells together.

Lo-Seb is a complex of homotaurine bacterial filrate peptides and marine derived sulphomucopolysaccharide extract. Lo-Seb reduces sebum output by 16% and is effective in normalising seborrhea often implicated in alopecia. Lo-Seb also has been shown to increase the percentage of hair in the Anagen (growth) phase by 15% (from 74.6 to 85.5%).

If you have any further questions please let me know.

Nanogen


Will be looking out for the clinical details.

If anyone has purchased Nanogaine would be interested in any results they get.


"On another note, what do you think about Adenogen, the new topical coming from Shisheido? "

No release date for this yet but will be watching and hoping for an early release.


Bill

#5 crazydiamond

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Posted 05 January 2005 - 01:23 PM

Thanks Bill

As you say, wait and see for people to try it. Think the price will put people of until they see some hard facts.

Got a reply from Shiseido that just said Adenoshin as they called it, will only be available in Japan with no plans yet for worldwide marketing. One for the back burner.

#6 Only Natural

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Posted 25 April 2006 - 03:11 AM

Hey guys...just wondering if there are any updates from users or if anybody is even using this stuff.

I just received mine..so we'll see. I've been using a # of products over the years, and plan to just use this stuff on the receded/hairline areas. I'll continue to use the other things I use all over. I'm a huge fan of SOD topicals- I just wish this one were liposomal.

I too contacted the company but didn't get very far. I have some other questions I'd like answered, so if anyone cares to pass them along I can post them or pm/email them to you.

Thanks,

Jacob

#7 Only Natural

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 03:32 AM

I can't believe there isn't anybody out there who's tried this stuff.

I like how clear it is..no smell to it. Takes some time for it to absorb though(or evaporate...)

#8 Only Natural

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:39 AM

Well I hate to bump this up again..but I really wish someone could get some answers from the company.

I noticed someone else had ordered some and all the "seals" were broken on his. I've had the same problem and others have as well. Everything else looks legit but it makes me wonder when the company stops responding to emails....

#9 Only Natural

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:50 AM

In fact their emails are now bouncing. Even though they're updating their website..

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<support@nanogen.co.uk>

----- Transcript of session follows -----
550 5.1.2 <support@nanogen.co.uk>... Host unknown (Name server: nanogen.co.uk: no data known)


If anyone in the UK could call them I'd very much appreciate it.

Thanks

#10 Bill

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 03:57 AM

I have contacted the company and invited them to reply here to the questions posted.


Bill

#11 Only Natural

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 01:49 AM

THANK YOU :unsure:

#12 spex

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 11:49 AM

Good work Bill!
Consultant and Showcase for Dr Feller and Dr Lindsey and Beauty Medical's SMP.

All opinions expressed are my own.Website : www.spexhair.com

My Hair Loss Education project : MaximumHair MinimumLoss.com


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#13 Bill

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 06:28 AM

I e-mailed the company on Thursday and received a phone call back within ten minutes.

I have dealt with this company for years and have always found them to be professional.

Posted below is the reply I got from the company.


Thank you for your email Bill and may I offer my apologies to your readers for any apparent
difficulties in getting responses from us - we are indeed upgrading the Nanogen website which
includes moving servers and the IT department tell me that this process involves some downtime
while the DNS servers around the world update themselves.

I imagine this is the reason for any mail not getting through.

I have had a look at the thread of posts on your popular forum and thought I would reply to
some of the points being made.

Please could you explain to your readers that we are interested in their views and would always
respond to emails, but our company policy is NOT to respond to forum postings directly because
we feel that this is unethical.

We do know that other companies operate using aliases in hair loss bulletin boards to plug their
own products but as a medical research company, especially in the area of hair loss and skincare,
we just cannot condone this behaviour and that is why we cannot even answer posts non-anonymously
for fear of being tarred by that brush.

So to your readers posts:

Bold claims / Price tag -

The mechanism of action of Minoxidil has nothing to do with its vasodilatory
effects as is commonly and incorrectly stated by pseudo-scientists.

That is increasing access to blood supply. You would be amazed at the number of so-called hair loss
experts who still band around the concept that Minoxidil 'works' by increasing the blood supply
available to the hair follicle.

In fact the increase in blood supply as a consequence of the vasodilatory effect of minoxidil is an
unfortunate side-effect that probably reduces its hair regrowth effects to a large degree.

The last thing one wants to do is increase the amount of DHT presenting to hair follicle cells that
are genetically predisposed to 'die' when they are exposed to DHT.

In fact the mechanism of action of minoxidil, while still not completely understood is most like the
effect of the nitric oxide (NO) 'donated' to the cell by the minoxidil molecule. In fact it is the
NO that gives its name to miNOxidil. NO is the wonder molecule of the last decade.

Even Viagra works by increasing the prescence of NO. Noone is sure how nitric oxide works but it
certainly does! It is thought to be a powerful chemical messenger. Millions of pounds is going into
NO research every year.

Nanogaine could easily contain minoxidil and be sold by mail order via our pharmacy distributors
but there are reasons minoxidil is not included and they are mainly due to the long term tollerance
of the compound (see Evaporative questions) and because we beleive that SODcu is more powerful and can
be used in addition to other products containing minoxidil if required.

The price of Nanogaine, considering it's monodose sterile packaging and patented ingredients is
considered to be 'cheap' by industry standards and we endevour to keep our prices this low to encourage
long term use as is required with all current hair loss topicals/orals.

We do offer special long term programmes - you would have to contact customer services to find out more.

Clinical trials -

For reasons of insumountable cost, Nanogaine is not sold as a drug. As a dermaceutical product therefore,we
are somewhat emasculated in what we can say (or rather publish formally) and stay within the law.

Nanogaine contains three important components:

1) Lo-Seb - a complex of homotaurine bacterial filrate peptides and marine derive sulphomucopolysaccharide extract.

Lo-Seb reduces sebum output by 16% and is effective in normalising seborrhea often implicated in alopecia.

Lo-Seb also has been shown to increase the percentage of hair in the Anagen (growth) phase by 15%
(from 74.6 to 85.5%).

2) Capilecti - lectin-like glycoprotien helping to agglutinate hair follicle cells together which has been shown to expand the Anagen (growth) phase and shorten the telogen (resting) phase by 17%.

3) SOD Copper Peptide - our SOD contains copper as the central metal ions making it a so called "copper peptide" which we all know the value of in hair loss.

This is a patented molecule. Copper Peptides are the vital components in products such as Tricomin,
Follipro and Dr Proctor inventions.

SODcu (the Nanogen TM for this compound) acts by increasing Nitric Oxide (NO) levels and decreasing
Peroxynitrite. Higher levels of intracellular (meaning within the cell) NO increases the size and section of the hair follicle.

Peroxynitrite has the opposite effect which means that SODcu has a double effect.

Evaporative questions - One of the design criteria that the pharmacologist research team were set by
management when they incorporated the active Nanogaine ingredients into a formulation was that the
product must not contain alcohol.

The reason for this was that the most common reason for people stating they had stopped using
minoxidil products was not because they did not regrow hair, but amazingly because the hair they
did grow and that remaining became intollerable brittle, dry and strawlike.

In fact it almost defeated the purpose of regrowing hair. This problem is only exacerbatted by ever-increasing concentrations of private-label minoxidilformulae.

Nanogaine is formulated to include water-soluble isomers of the actives we identified so that the
complete formulation could be included in an aqueous solution allowing use over the very long term.
After all it is no use regrowing hair and then having to stop use and lose it all again.

The lack of evaporative effect is a good thing! It means that yes the solution dries/penetrates more
slowly but it does not dry out the hair.

Liposomal questions -

This is a fair and incisive comment/observation made by one of your readers but is not relevant to this
particular product for two reasons:

1) Capilarity - If this was any other part of the skin, the benefits
of a liposomal vehicle for improved transcutaneous absorption of an aqueous solution is unquestionable.

However this is not the same for hair products. The reason why is that Nanogaine actives are designed
to travel to the hair folicle itself.

Fortunately, normal, thinning and even vellus hair is present in what appears to be smooth/bald areas
acts as a direct transport system to the follicle using the physical and powerful priniciple of capilarity.

The same mechanism that drives water up through narrow channels from the base to the leaves of 100m
metre tall trees without any power source.

Liposomes will significantly add to the cost of manufacture and therefore will undoubtedly affect the
selling price and would unlike add any additional efficacy seeing as the bioavailability of actives is
alreadysaturated.

2) One must remember that while the bi-lipid membrane is highly hydrophobic (repels water), the hair
folicle is rooted in the dermis layer of the skin and is above the sub-cutenous (lipid-layer) surface
which prevent aqueous drug delivery to the blood supply.

The keratinous epidermis does have waterproofing properties but small inorganic molecules can find their way through to the dermis. Also there is a large amount of water-channels (or hydrophilic transporter proteins) that literally act as ferries across the cell membrane. Just one water transport protein in the skin can transport around 4 billion water molecules across the lipid bilayer. See below for the dynamics of diffusion across a lipid bilayer from a popular physiology text:

Diffusive fluxes of uncharged molecules across lipid bilayer membranes are usually represented by
Fick's First Law of Diffusion here D = diffusion coefficient for molecule in the barrier (cm2/sec),
A = surface area of the barrier (cm2), dC/dx = change in concentration over distance in the barrier
(mol . cm-3 . cm-1), and J = dn/dt = change in number of moles per unit time (mol/s).

The diffusion coefficient (D) is derived from the Stokes-Einstein equation that models the diffusion
of spherical particles in a continuous fluid medium and represents the mobility of the solute in the
membrane.

The diffusion coefficient where k = Boltzmann's constant, T = absolute temperature (?K), r =
molecular radius, and = viscosity of solution.

The partition coefficient (solubility of the solute in the membrane) is the ratio of the concentration
of solute in the membrane to the concentration of solute in water. It is difficult to determine the
partition coefficient and the diffusion coefficient for a given solute in cell membranes and the
thickness of individual living membranes.

Thus these three variables are frequently lumped together into the term "permeability,"
where P = (Dmem x Bmem)/(membrane thickness) such that flux J = PAC. Thus molecule size and solubility
taken together should completely account for the basal permeability (in cm/s) of solute molecules across cell membranes.



Medical Director - Nanogen this mail contains educational information only this is not medical advise nor
advertisement for any product, procedure or devise.

Nothing contained within this text is designed to advertise a treatment or cure for any disease

#14 Only Natural

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 09:43 PM

*Bows down to Bill*

I really appreciate you calling and getting a response from him. I love it when a company does
respond and does so in such detail.

I wish my question on the "seals" being broken would have been answered, though. There are at least 3
of us who've received their products and every single bottle was already ready to use. Meaning we didn't have to push down on it to "click" it open. I don't know about the others, but mine all have the cap with a little tear at the base(from being pushed down?).

On liposomes...we'll probably have to agree to disagree. I'd agree that some things may not need liposomes to be effective, but I'd always prefer a liposomal/nanosomal type product over a "regular" one. Lipoxidil.com and elsomresearch.com are 2 places that use liposomal/nanosomal/etc tech- I've been using a # of their products over the years. There is one "study" that shows less minox in liposomes did just as well as more minox in a "regular" vehicle.

Here's another example:

hairless rats which had been topically treated with liposomally encapsulated Ciclosporin A regained a normal fur growth within only a few weeks. Other preparations in which Cyclosporin A had been applied in presence of classical penetration agents as alcohol did however not show any effect at the same test conditions.


And http://web.archive.o...0269-0281re.pdf

I guess I should point out that it's not just the penetration issue..liposomes also allow for time-release of the active ingredients. And in the case of Elsom Research..no alcohol or pg is used.

There have been some complaints about the # of preservatives in Nanogaine..but I'm not sure there's a way around it. I do like it that it has no alcohol in it.

I'll see if I can email them with the questions I still have.

Again..thanks :)

#15 Only Natural

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 10:03 PM

And my emails are still bouncing..... :)

#16 Booly

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 10:23 PM

Hey Jacob, you are eveywhere ;p
I was searching nanogaine users but well, it seems that I'm the oldest user of this product posting on a forum..
well, I'm starting the 15th week, I'm losing more hair everyday for 2 weeks now and the vellus is still...vellus.

#17 Only Natural

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 10:31 PM

Yeah I can't figure out why there aren't more posts from users of the stuff. If I'm not mistaken..it's been around for at least a couple of years. I'm pretty sure this is the product I *thought* contained minox so I didn't have much interest in it.

I'm only where I am when I'm there :)

#18 Pure Grief

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 09:43 AM

I wouldn't waste money on it until the FDA approve it for treating baldness. Why pay that price tag when it isn't scientifically proven :)

#19 Booly

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 04:57 PM

Have you any idea of the cost of the "fda approval"... ? Nanogen is not a big company

#20 Only Natural

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Posted 22 July 2006 - 03:34 PM

Well I give up...will probably move on to another topical. The "monodose sterile packaging " is BS if each of the vials is already broken and ready to use. I never did get a response on the SOD stability issue either- back when they were responding to my emails.

BTW..somebody else posted this elsewhere..on liposomes again: http://www.ncbi.nlm....l=pubmed_docsum

#21 Booly

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Posted 22 July 2006 - 09:40 PM

Jacob in my last order ( 2 nanogaine's boxes, which I ordered on the main web site) all the vials are "clickable"

#22 Only Natural

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 12:10 AM

But that doesn't help me at all. Both of my boxes were like your first one(s)..and someone else also had the same problem.

When they don't respond to that question/point..it bothers me.

#23 Booly

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Posted 23 July 2006 - 12:18 PM

Jacob are your hair still falling out slowly or is your hairloss completly stopped ?

#24 Only Natural

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 02:13 AM

Jacob are your hair still falling out slowly or is your hairloss completly stopped ?


I pretty much stopped, or really slowed down my hair loss, starting a few years ago. I keep using things and trying new things to hopefully keep what I have and possibly regrow some more

I may try this product in the near future: http://www.arrowhead...om./sod_cat.htm

#25 dot

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 02:38 AM

Today I received my first nanogen box from combat-hair-loss.co.uk and was quite excited about the product until I realised that all seals from the bottles were already broken. Has anyone managed to get any response from the company about this matter?

#26 Booly

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 01:56 PM

Why don't you call them ? I wish I do, it will answer all our questions, but my english is pretty bad

#27 dot

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Posted 30 July 2006 - 01:37 AM

Booly did you buy yours from nanogen.co.uk? I haven't been able to find a contact number here in the UK but I did send them an email and hopefully will hear from them at some point. Does anyone have any idea why their website is constanly down? I received a second box of nanogaine a couple of days ago and once again all the vials were already opened. I will return both boxes and hopefully will receive a refund. The site i got it from were quite helpful and offered to do as much as they can to sort this out. Not sure what they have in mind but I'm hopeful.. They also told me that they will get in touch with the supplier to see what their position is on this matter as they insist that they had nothing to do with the broken seals and that it is a manufacturer fault. Let's hope that nanogen will respond this time.

#28 dot

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Posted 31 July 2006 - 04:07 PM

Here's the response from the manufacturers of Nanogaine sent to the supplier on 31 July 2006:


"Hello,

There was a batch of the nanogaine which when manufactured the tops were pressed on too tightly and the seal snapped.

We did recall the vast majority but unfortunately some had already gone to customers and it was not until they are opened until you can tell. This is not a problem since the solution is not sterile and for the ingredients to
'keep' does not need to be in a sealed environment.

The nanogaine you received on your last order are from a new batch and will be fine. If you have a nanogaine from a few months ago still, we can swap this if necessary.

Kind regards

Dean"

So I've emailed 8 different companies who sell Nanogaine online and asked them to check their supplies and they all gave me the same answer more or less explaining that it is not possible to open any of the boxes because they were brand new and therefore there shouldn't be any concern about the product's condition. That wasn't a good enough excuse as I already knew that the boxes could be opened from the sides without having to tear off anything so that made me even more suspicious. So I was about to give up and started considering other treatments until I received a response from Pharmacy2u.co.uk a couple of hours ago and they were the only ones who bothered opening a few of their boxes I'm guessing and confirmed that all the bottles they've checked were still properly sealed. I ordered one box from them and I should have it in a couple of days. I'll let you know how it goes.

#29 dot

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Posted 01 August 2006 - 02:39 PM

Ok. Finally got some good news. The nanogaine box I received from pharmacy2u.co.uk is in an acceptable condition. All bottles are completely water tight and they can only be opened by pressing down their caps. So anyone who has encountered the 'broken seal' problem and still wants to buy this product you can get it from pharmacy2u.co.uk. They deliver worldwide and will most likely deliver the next day if you are in the UK. Now what I'm left to worry about is whether nanogaine will bring any positive results as my hair loss problem seems to be getting out of control especially since stop using rogaine a couple of months ago. Anyone else who used nanogaine or knows anything about it that hasn't already been mentioned here would be appreciated if you could share your thoughts.

#30 plat211

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Posted 05 August 2006 - 03:37 PM

Hey Jacob, you are eveywhere ;p
I was searching nanogaine users but well, it seems that I'm the oldest user of this product posting on a forum..
well, I'm starting the 15th week, I'm losing more hair everyday for 2 weeks now and the vellus is still...vellus.



Booly, have you seen any effect of the nanogaine on your temples? Are the vellus hair still vellus and would u say nanogaine is a waste of money ?




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